Like an old friend you were secretly happy had left the country for good only to show up on your doorstep to ask for a place to sleep for the next month, Otto Octavius, the Superior Spider-Man returned to the Spider-Verse this week in Superior Spider-man #32.
I’d like to say I missed Otto, but that would be a a bit of a lie. However, it was refreshing to read Dan Slott (and Christos Gage) working in their comfort zone again in terms of their superhero storytelling. My dissatisfaction with how Slott and Marvel ended the Superior-era a few months ago has already been well documented, so when I heard that the series would continue with two more comics that continuity-wise, take place around Superior #19, I was curious to read which version of Spider Ock which show up this time around. The winner appeared to be the overly-bombastic, obnoxious, self absorbed Spider Ock, which for a one or two-story arc, isn’t such a bad thing, as I like to think that Superior was at its best when he was being written that way.
In terms of the flow of the story, I actually thought that Superior #32 had a little bit of trouble getting out of the gate, as Slott and Gage seemeto be focusing more on establishing the Spider-Man 2099 universe, rather than establishing a narrative to drive forward a plot about Spider Ock. The cameos, name-drops and appearances by the likes of Tyler Stone, the Stark Fujikawa Corporation, hologram helpers, Venture and Gabriel O’Hara were all fun for fans of the original Peter David series, but almost felt a bit redundant when you consider that David is rebuilding this entire universe himself in the recently relaunched 2099 series.
Similar to some of the criticisms I’ve been levying towards the “Learning to Crawl” miniseries, I still fail to see the larger purpose of all of the continuity-referencing that goes on in some of Slott’s stories, especially when the script fails to provide additional context as to why these old plot points are important enough to show up in the modern comics again. It’s a nice little tip of the hat to those who have read the original source material, but what percentage of the current Superior Spider-Man readership actually remember Miguel O’Hara’s feud with Venture in the early/mid 1990s?
Fortunately, the futuristic setting does provide Slott and Gage with ample opportunity to dial Otto’s hubris up to 11, which is quite fun and entertaining in the context of this issue. Some of Spider Ock’s sneering and arrogance is probably a little bit over-the-top, but considering this is seemingly going to be just a two-part vacation with the character, I think it’s forgivable. Bits like Otto claiming to be 100 years ahead of modern technology and thereby finding the 2099 universe to be primitive in nature were standout sequences in this book.
Superior #32 picks up in the pace department once Otto starts timeline jumping after discovering that an evil force of some sort is picking off various Spider-Men from around the multiverse. However, we’re only in the prologue to “Spider-Verse” and I’m already having some questions about the “rules” of the universe that Slott and Gage are establishing. I’m admittedly not a Doctor Who person (and Slott very much is), so maybe I’m just being dense about a time-traveling/multiverse trope that others can just accept without question. But while I certainly understand how “Spider-Verse” will incorporate alternative Spider-Men from other timelines (i.e., Spider-Man Noir, 2099, House of M, or even a What If? version of Spider-Man since that series was set on a different timeline), I don’t grasp how Spider-Man showing up in an alternative costume (i.e., the Iron Spider or Spider Armor version that are killed off in this issue) can be appearing in this story. Aren’t those alternative costume versions all a part of the “mainstream” 616 timeline? And if those characters get killed off, shouldn’t that mean that the contemporary Peter Parker Spider-Man we are currently reading about in the pages of ASM should be dead too?
Just writing those last few sentence out has given me a bit of a headache. And I think that’s my biggest fear of all as it pertains to “Spider-Verse.” While it’s difficult to ask for such a fantastical plot to be rooted in any kind of reality, there at least needs to be some consistency in order to achieve the desire level of suspended disbelief. From my vantage, a representation of Earth-616 Peter wearing his black costume or stealth suit does not constitute a new timeline – unless the past is considered a timeline in this universe that also happens to be disconnected from the present timeline. And my simple-minded perspective just can’t accept the reality that something that happens to a Spider-Man of the past doesn’t affect his present form.
Again… a headache.
UPDATE: As many of you have pointed out to me in the comments and on Twitter, the “alternative costume” Spider-Men are not from a past-timeline but also from an alternative timeline in the multiverse. That still doesn’t change some of my general reservations about the lack of “rules” with “Spider-Verse’s” construction (to this point). This is obviously just my opinion but I think the invention of new timelines without any semblance of explanation or context could eventually reduce the flow of “Spider-Verse” to a state of lawlessness filled with deus ex machina moments and unfair plot twists based on the whims of the creators. Again, I understand that in a highly fictional superhero story, I can’t really expect much in terms of realism, but I think mining content from known alternative timelines will help maintain the story’s structure and keep it more streamlined. One of the biggest flaw’s with the “Clone Saga” in the 90s was when Marvel kept introducing new twist, after new twist, disregarding any sense of rules and order. As a result, once fans turned on the story, Marvel had to double reverse its reveals and render 3 1/2 years worth of story moot.
Anyway, now that I’ve traveled way off the reservation in terms of my thoughts on Superior #32, I do like the idea of Spider Ock trying to assemble a team of alternative timeline Spider-Men in his fight against this dangerous mystical force because it strikes me as something Otto Octavius would do (though, again, I need my Cliffs Notes to keep up with some of the characters appearing here, which means it’s going to be even worse for more casual readers). Otto has almost always been a strength in numbers guy (hello, Sinister Six), even if he ultimately believes his own way of doing things is the superior one. The fact that this issue takes place in the past does raise some possible red flags about how “Spider-Verse” is ultimately going to play out in terms of current continuity, but we have another issue of Superior, and a bunch of miniseries dropping next month that should hopefully resolve that possible conflict.
I took Iron Spider and Spider-Armor as universes were those storylines kept on going. Maybe I was just being too easy on the issue.
^This.
However it took me a while to write it all down, and I was anticipated. 🙂
I mean, it’s very clear that if I’m going to even attempt to enjoy Spider-Verse I’m going to have to just adopt this mindset otherwise I’m going to drive myself crazy, but the logic holes I perceive this story has it’s a big reason why I’ve always been a Marvel guy over a DC guy and that I’ve never been a huge fan of time traveling/timeline-hopping tropes… my wife doesn’t understand why I don’t like Donnie Darko … I guess I’m jus too pragmatic an individual to grasp theoretical physics and sciences … which is funny coming from a guy who loves superhero comic books.
I don’t understand. You have a fine grasp. You understand the concept of the what if issues. You clearly understand it. You accept there are Marvel comics and Dc comics. You accept that there are other comic companies. I bet you accept that the Raimi Spider-man movies and the Webb movies are all different continuities.
You understand all of this.
Why can’t you accept that their are fictional worlds where Peter kept the Spider armor? There’s no theoretical physics or science.
Do you know the Star Trek mirror universe?
“I totally understand that Spider-Man Noir, Miguel, Fantastic Five Spidey all represent “alternative reality/timeline” Spider-Men,”
Why do you understand these, I think you need to explain. Do you think alternate worlds need to be radically different?
I didn’t read this issue yet (time to go before it gets to Italy), but all I can say to bring in some logic to Iron Spider’s death is that it’s actually an alternate timeline (a parallel universe) where either they’re still during the Civil War era or Peter never changed back to his original costume (maybe because the events went another way).
It also comes to me that they did estabilish other characters in Iron Spider costume post-CW, called something like the Scarlet Spiders, I think (that period is a bit of a blind spot to me). So, if this is the Earth-616 past, the one dead isn’t Peter but one of them.
Otherwise Slott has no idea of how time works, even in the wibbly-wobbly whovian way. 😛
And as a final note, the Spiders appearing in the final splash page should be, from left to right: SpiderGirl (OldManLogan), a six-arms Spider-Man (maybe from an alternate reality where he kept the extra-arms), Spider-Man India, Spider-Man the “ruthless” spy (from a what if, if I recall it correctly), Spider-Man Noir and SpiderMonkey.
I thought the female on the left was Betty Brant as Spider-Man/Woman from the “What If Someone Else Was Bit by the Spider” issue.
Nope, it is definitely the granddaughter of Peter Parker from the “Old Man Logan” storyline. Unfortunately, according to Mark Millar, her official name is actually “Spider-Bitch”. Sigh….
On second look, you’re right, as Betty Brant’s Spider-Costume is much more hideous than that. Oh Mark Millar…
LOL
I didn’t know this! Well, she was a bitch, afterall…
All of the places that Superior Spidey goes are alternate realities. Even 2099 would be considered an alternate because we have no idea if the Marvel future will end up being that way (probably not). Plus theres already one other alternate future: Spidergirls.
So what Superior is doing isnt really time travel, its more like reality travel. (think Sliders, not Doctor Who).
Yeah… this is where the headache comes in. I totally understand that Spider-Man Noir, Miguel, Fantastic Five Spidey all represent “alternative reality/timeline” Spider-Men, but I still don’t understand how Spider-Man wearing the Spider Armor from Web of #100 constitutes an alternative reality. Unless we’re counting it as a video game version of the character, in which case, I think Spider-Verse as a concept has way too much latitude and is bound to become a house of cards with random “because I said so” moments coming from the creator. Just create a streamlined idea of what we’re working with here and no, “every Spider-Man ever” isn’t it.
I think the Sliders comparison is perfect. Think that things might not have happened at the same time as 616 and other realities might be a bit behind so it seems like time travel but it’s really not. That way anyone can die without the main timeline being affected. And from what Dan was saying at Comic-con expect a lot of them to die. Also he was making jokes about the lego Spider-Man and the 8 bit Atari Spider-Man
Not every world needs to be some established what if. You just need to know different choices let to different outcomes.
On that world the Spider armor stuck around.
You do understand the concept. You just don’t like it apparently. You don’t like it’s not a preexisting world from a what if or mini.
I see no problem with “Well true believers guess what there are alternate worlds where situations played out differently”
There are several What If? universes wherein Spider-Man is still wearing those suits. I’m not sure of the number but I know for a fact there is a Universe where Spider-Man never turned his back on Tony during Civil War, hence the Iron Spider suit. That said, perhaps all they need is a title card or editor’s note that says what each universe is to keep confusion like this to a minimum. If they were looking to easily communicate an idea about the multiverse these examples are a little hard to immediately pick up on unless you are a hardcore fan. Either way, I enjoyed this issue but was unsure of why it was broken up into two stories…
I don’t think you need to be a hardcore fan. Hardcore will really understand the situation. Casual will understand ‘Different Spidey, different world”. If you are already reading Superior Spider-man, the concept should make plenty of sense.
All this makes my head hurt. Part of me wishes that this event could be a way for Morlun to kill off the vast majority of the peripheral Spidey incarnations. As a huge Spidey fan, all of these characters take away any sense of uniqueness of Peter Parker.
It’s not they visit these guys everyday. Hell it actually boosts Peter Parker because no matter the universe he’s usually great. Some heroes are a response to their Peter’s legacy.
We follow the 616 verse, but having a multiverse doesn’t take away from how special it is. Do you hate the films and cartoons as well because they aren’t 616 Peter.
I don’t understand how you’re confused by any of this. The other Spider-men are from alternate realities where different events occurred…like the What If? stories or Age of Apocalypse.
Seems a little arbitrary to me. A Spider-Man wearing his Iron Spider costume (From Civil War era) or his Spider Armor (from Web of #100) shows up and I have to assume he’s from an alternative reality. It’s sloppy storytelling and as Dan G. notes, could have definitely used some input from Nick Lowe with an editor’s note.
Arbitrary? You have to assume? The first jump has Otto telling the hologram(and thus the reader) that this is an alternate universe. Then jump after jump further cements that. You don’t have to assume anything. The writer tells you.
Like you needed a note for every jump saying “oh this is a universe where the proside won and Peter stayed with Iron Man”? I think that’s ridicules. The reading level of the book doesn’t require that.
You should be thinking “Oh this is a universe where Peter kept this suit”.
You understand the concept but seem to dislike that you weren’t given even more exposition or notes for what you already figured it.
Well, I don’t think I’m actually at a point of disliking anything yet, and as a whole I did like what I read in Superior #32 as a comic book story. The issue just gives me some reservations and what might be coming as Spider-Verse becomes fully evolved.
Personally, I think a tighter story can be told using pre-existing alternative Spider-Man instead of having Slott make up new versions and leaving the reader to assume “oh okay, this must be a situation where xyz” happened. Especially if these characters are just going to be red shirts and killed off-panel anyway.
But that’s just, like, my opinion man.
I understand the need for a tighter story, that’s fine.
At the end of this issue though, all the survivors gathered so far are preexisting. He essentially killed the “new” ones to show the threat. But kept the pre-existing ones to tell the story.
This is going to be a continuity story. If your’re not a Spider-man reader, this is likely not the story for you. This happens but they need to reward pre-existing readers.
I also just don’t think it’s that weak of a story if Iron Spidey of world 242-3 doesn’t get his whole story told. You just need to know that he was murdered and it’s not isolated to his world.
I appreciate that you obviously passionately disagree with my take on this, but I think the debate you’re insisting on having has hit a bit of a stalemate as you’re arguing with me over matters of taste, not comprehension.
This is NOT TIME TRAVEL(well to 2099). Get that out of your head. These are not past Peter Parkers. They are not the future, past, or present of the 616. Treat them just like you would the movies and cartoons.
hey i have been listening to dan and your spidertalk podcast for awhile now, and im really digging it so keep it up 🙂
anyways, with this issue i guess i don’t have the bigger hang-ups you have about it. i really, really like superior spider-man for being so different than Peter, and although im extremely delighted that Peter is back in his body, im super happy they have continued on with the Otto story…for at least a bit.
i love that he is an arrogant jerk, and couldn’t handle being peter parker and reverts back to himself, its the thing that separates the characters for sure.
the timeline/alternate reality issues didnt bother me mostly because i can just think, this is a comic. im supposed to be having fun reading the issue, enjoying the story and getting into the characters. i dont know, maybe you are thinking too hard about the logistics of everything, but everything about comics is so unreal anyway, so just have fun dude.
🙂